Is Emteria RPi the right choice for me?
I am here because I am testing Emteria on my RPi for my first build project but it isn't going as well as hoped.
My project seemed simple enough in my computer illiterate mind; Build a large Android tablet using a small computer and a big touchscreen. How big of a touchscreen? I got a very good deal on a 23 inch Dell multitouch display on Ebay. How small of a computer? No idea, so I started with the RPi-3B since it is recommended practically everywhere. Which version of Android? The newest possible, I suppose, to get all the latest features available on OTS tablets.
I found EmteriaOS and installed it. It works. Multitouch works, OpenGaPPs works, portrait mode works, audio works. Camera and microphone don't work but I will figure that out later.
Alright! Progress! So, I installed a bunch of apps to give it a whirl; NovaLauncher, Google Calendar, Weather&Clock widget, Spotify, Chrome, etc.... Freeze.. crash.. freeze.. crash. Checked the Emteria forum and found that apparently the RPi GPU is underpowered or something to that effect.
Okay...Now what? Should I stick with RPi/Emteria and just lower my project expectations? Should I get a more powerful computer? What are my options? I already attempted Raspbian but the tablet experience was no where near as good as the Android (there's an app for that) environment for me.
Out of haste and frustration, I ordered an ODROID XU4Q (still in the mail) but looking further into that, Android 7 Lineage appears to have many issues. Did I go in the wrong direction?
I though this would be a relatively easy project but I am feeling really lost. I haven't been able to find a great amount of useful information on the webs; lots of SBC projects but few like mine. This is my first "maker build" and I could really use some helpful dialogue to get me back on track. Thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks.
Comments
Interesting development, thanks for sharing. I wish you all the best with this project and hope that emteria.OS can support you as much as possible. I'll selectively comment on some statements. Please don't hesitate to ask again, if you would like to get a specific answer.
What kind of a camera? What kind of a microphone? The official RPi camera is working (see https://forum.emteria.com/discussion/249/0-5-6-pi-camera-v2#latest) as well as USB webcams (you need special apps for that). USB microphone should also work (see https://forum.emteria.com/discussion/22/usb-headset-usb-sound-card-usb-microphone-compatibility#latest).
As we have explained a couple of times in this forum, RPi3 has only 256 MB of dedicated GPU memory. A single Android activity (executed on a resolution of 1280x720) uses AT LEAST 7.2MB of memory without even doing anything fancy (e.g. showing black background only). If you add up all visible components (status and navigation bars, partially visible components, memory required for animations and state changes, cached activities in the background, memory reserved by the system) there isn't that much left. However, this isn't the only problem. Android isn't designed to start from sdcards, but rather from much faster builtin emmc memory. This creates additional performance bottleneck, which is almost impossible to handle if combined with a huge memory and cpu load created by OpenGApps / Google Services. In addition to all that, Raspberry Pi seems quite unstable when it comes to heavy I/O operations (you can google for io-related freezes).
AFAIK, ODROID XU4 has twice as much memory, twice as many CPU cores (BTW: with much higher frequency) and eMMC memory. I am sure it will perform better than RPi3, but it isn't fair to compare those two.
So what is your goal? If you are trying to create a generic tablet for all kinds of activities, clutter it up with cpu-intensive apps and compare the result to off-the-shelf high-performance devices optimized to run in a single configuration, Raspberry Pi doesn't have a chance to win. But if you are building a device with minimal requirements and predefined number of applications, Raspberry Pi 3 is the platform of choice. We have achieved some good progress in only a few months of development and will continue to improve emteria.OS and make it more stable. But at the and, we are developers and not magicians - please don't expect the tiny Pi to be the answer to everything.
@kalkov
Thanks again for your feedback. You mentioned to me in another discussion about the camera and mic. The camera and mic are built into the Dell monitor I am using (Dell S2340T). From what I can tell, it is a combined isochronous RealTek (570a?) module. Per your advice, I downloaded several USB camera apps and did finally get it to work (sort of) but got many crashes and freezes in the process and had to give up.
I must assume the camera (and mic) issues were likewise due to the GPU memory since they all have a video feed of the intended photo and IF they are able show that video, they all freeze or crash at some point.
But, I get it. The RPi is what it is... at $30, it has provided a good bit of education already and even if I get the XU4 to work as I hope, I will still be using the RPi to learn more with and I will likely think of another project for it, possibly on the EmteriaOS. (constant display style "magic mirror"?) We'll see. Maybe another forum member here has a better suggestion.
My current goal is, as you say, to create a generic tablet for all kinds of activities cluttered with cpu-intensive apps... then mount it on my refrigerator as a "Family Hub" interactive kiosk. Mostly just for the time, weather and calendar but also for shopping lists, recipes, notes, and a little music to cook along with. Basically, I want the Samsung FamilyHub smart fridge but without the Samsung refrigerator and walled garden Samsung app store. I even had some hopes of running a voice assistant with the mic and utilizing the camera to photograph invites to add to the calendar. Mostly I like running big desktop widgets that can be seen at a glance which I am sure is not helping my cause on the RPi. But, I had to try RPi to see how far towards my goal I could push it and going forward I wonder if even the XU4 is going to be powerful enough. Without much of a comparable knowlege base for my build, I am just using the "guess and check" method filled in with as much forum reading as I can handle before confusion sets in.
To me, your development crew at Emteria is a bunch of wizards! From what I can tell, the product is great, only limited by the hardware. If there was an EmteriaOS build for the ODROID XU4, it would be my first choice and if I dream up another Pi project, it will again be my choice. You guys do really nice work.
However, I do have one request... I would love to see a part of the forum here where users can post their projects. Even "Industrial" type projects are interesting and a great way to see what really is possible to do with Android on the tiny Pi.
In this case you are better off with an ODROID XU4, but be ready to face the same issues with your camera and microphone. Not because there isn't sufficient memory, but rather because the real cause may be missing drivers for your devices. I do hope you will bring it to life though. I am a great fan of DIY projects and fancy "smart" mirrors.
We are focusing on what isn't there yet and what is interesting for industrial applications. For ODROID there are awesome developers like voodik (https://github.com/voodik) and Chris (https://github.com/codewalkerster) who is doing a fantastic job in supporting and extending Android for ODROID boards. But, if there happens to be a market for industrially used ODROID devices, we will gladly jump on the bandwagon and release our own distribution.
Sure, that sounds great to me. What do you think is needed from our side to support such discussions/ideas?
Maybe just a category in the forums.
This discussion is now the first in the new category
Thanks Kalkov. I guess I will be the first to share....!
(BTW: my first YouTube video too!)
Thanks!
https://youtu.be/-8quDfcvMjY
That looks pretty awesome, congratulations!
I don't like the evaluation message in the bottom right corner though. I hope a free license I have just added to your account will make it even more impressive. Thanks for sharing!
@Dreamcatcher_DB1 -- I'm planning to do the same sort of project, I'm curious if you're still using this and how it's worked out?
Specifically I'm wondering if you allow the emteria/rpi3b to go to lockscreen, or sleep the screen, and if so how you wake it up? Like, does it wake up with a tap, or do you have to use any sort of hardware (keyboard for example) to wake it up?
I'm still waiting on my hardware so I can't play around yet.
@kalkov I'm wondering if it'd be possible to use a PIR motion sensor with emteria to wake the screen when someone walks near it?
Thanks
Indeed, this forum could be a collection of projects and a place of experience exchange.
@ketnoip
Due to the GPU of the RPi-3B, I was not able to continue this project using the EmteriaOS. I am currently considering another use for the RPi-3B on EmteriaOS in a manner that is less GPU intensive. Thankfully, Kalkov created the "Projects" portion of the forums here so I will be monitoring it for ideas.
I ended up purchasing an ODROID XU4 and installed Android 4.4 from the ODROID repository. With this, the display sizes need some tweaking to take advantage of the 1080p display resolution. Using NovaLauncher Pro, the display of icons is easily scaled up but the Navigation Bar is still somewhat undersized and I have been looking into how I might make that larger. Otherwise it works pretty well without any GPU hiccups. Still, it isn't without some troubles... While my built-in USB camera works, it has poor resolution and I still cannot get functionality from the built-in USB microphone that is combined with the camera. I may need to just add an external microphone. Also, I sometimes get "ghost touches". I have visible touch points turned on, so I can see the ghost touches and they all seem to accumulate on the right side of my screen (top of the screen in landscape).
As far as the lock screen, I don't use a "lockscreen" but I do use a "daydream" app which is simply an automated image changer (500 Firepaper Pro v2.80). It is considered a "live wallpaper" that downloads and caches several images each day and automatically changes the wallpaper throughout the day. In daydream mode, it runs a slideshow of the cached images. A two-finger touch ends the daydream mode. It's pretty simple, although I wished I could add a clock to the daydream. I'm currently looking into modifying it to do that. Another app function I am considering would be timed screen dimming. Although, ideally, the screen would dim when no one is present then brighten when presence is detected using a motion detector.
I hope that helps. I can't wait to see your build.
My project is a car mini-PC. I found a CARPC project I've been using so far. I was really happy when I found Emteria OS. In principle, OS could have known everything CARPC did not do. The CARPC was very stable with excellent sound and video playback, but there were several shortcomings. The Emteria OS at first glance offers everything that is needed in a car. I've just bought a second license so I do not have to put it out of the car when it's changed. Almost everything works well, but there are two shortcomings that need to be solved.
1. GPS is not automatically connected (eg Waze)
2. No central volume control. This is the biggest problem.
This is not negligible because I have not encountered a device (Phone, Tablet) that does not have this. Unfortunately, Kalkov is very opposed to this, but he does not justify it.
I would very much like to use it fully in my car.
Unfortunately, I have nothing to do with programming, but I can execute instructions.
@ketnoip, should be possible to have an application running in the background and send a wakeup event programmatically (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2891337/turning-on-screen-programmatically).
Hi Igor and others,
I wanted to add to this that I feel that there is currently a small gap in supply between RTandroid fading out and Emteria not (yet officially) supporting the odroid xu4. I know, I could probably go and just make it work for myself, but first I thought maybe asking this here is a good idea: would it be too much to ask to have the official Odroid XU4 builds of RTandroid put back up for download while Emteria is still short of official support for it? That would be awesome, thank you very much.
your former student Milan
Hi Milan,
Unfortunately, I'm out of the university and don't have access to old RTAndroid builds (the website should actually be completely offline for almost a year now). There are better builds for XU4 than we can currently do (take a look at voodik's work), so I don't know if we will add support for it any soon.